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Subject review (reverse sequence)

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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (18,772 posts)  [Biography] bio   Forum Administrator
Date Wed 27 Jul 2011 09:22 PM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
Well the problem is that it would take a lot of work to rewrite the client, regardless of which platform or tools I chose.

Already the client gets a few thousand downloads a month, so someone must like it in the current form. Any sort of major rewrite would be incompatible with existing scripts and is thus likely to get a very slow level of take-up.
- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by Ruedii   (2 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Wed 27 Jul 2011 09:46 AM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
Have you considered GTK+/Glade?

That provides a nice clean interface, and configuration. (A lot cleaner than WxWindows IMO.) It also allows for easy XML-Based modding of the interface.
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Posted by Jef   (2 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Mon 16 Feb 2009 01:53 AM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
man u r open minded. As a programmer my usual reaction to such voices was "my code? what the heck wrong with my code?" :D
as i said, MC is best imho, powerful and fast, thank ur great effort!
actually i can understand ur code very well, i started coding from VC++, doc/view, M$'s MFC now considered as ugly design, but it was best IDE under windows.
I feel ur origional idea very interesting, a thin client yet still hav most power, i dont hav much free time but still trying to dig in a bit. free control of windows with Lua, so nice. things hard should be with event loop and message queue? or if MC migrate to wxWidgets then can interact with wxLua? will read more
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (18,772 posts)  [Biography] bio   Forum Administrator
Date Sun 15 Feb 2009 08:35 PM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
You are right, it is messy. The problem was, that when I first started writing it, this was one of my first GUI applications, although I had done a lot of programming previously.

I learnt as I went, and for example, when I implemented the Chat system, it was much more modular. In fact I wrote the functions first, and added the GUI on top of that, which made for a more modular and stable system.

The problem now is, that if I make changes I really need for it to function the same as before, or it will break existing scripts or behaviours (like triggers). So really, I could put a lot of work into improving it under the bonnet, with no difference in end-user behaviour.


- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by Jef   (2 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Sun 15 Feb 2009 07:50 AM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
hi Nick, wish u not mind it, i have some ideas about MC code.
MC is stable, strong, fast, probably the best mush client, but still, the code structure can be improved. I just checked and did some changes, one thing i notice is that no proper middle tier in it.
3 tiers: GUI->function layer->data, that will make code cleaner, a bit, when u want to do make huge changes to MC or u want to reuse MC code in a new project, u dont need to write from scratch
To this code, i suggest u create a new class MCWorld, move gui-neutral code from doc to MCWorld, and the call, pDoc->dosomesth() simply change to pDoc->world->dosomesth()
When this is done, a new layer created, that can be used in new client, and old one can be maintained at the same time.
I did some test, function like GetWorld() use too much doc/view thing, need a big change, most others, like AddTrgiier() just copy/paste
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (18,772 posts)  [Biography] bio   Forum Administrator
Date Wed 11 Feb 2009 10:52 PM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
I connected to http://www.wxwidgets.org/ ok just now.
- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by Curious2   (47 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Wed 11 Feb 2009 08:59 PM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
Hmm something happened to the wxWidgets site. The designer's Word Press url shows unable to connect as well...

I was looking at this and wxLua but now I can't seem to get any information regarding wxWidgets or even download it. Anyone else able to connect?
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Posted by David Haley   USA  (3,881 posts)  [Biography] bio   Moderator
Date Thu 05 Feb 2009 03:46 PM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
I would be delighted to ditch everything except Lua, but then, that's just me. :-) Running MUSHclient in Wine works well enough, but it has enough quirks that I'd rather something more native. Enough to warrant all the work it'd take to write a new client? To be honest, probably not...
David Haley aka Ksilyan
Head Programmer,
Legends of the Darkstone

http://david.the-haleys.org
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (18,772 posts)  [Biography] bio   Forum Administrator
Date Thu 05 Feb 2009 02:34 AM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
I stick by my comment at the top of page 9.

With people wanting support for multiple scripting languages, and also with the goal of supporting multiple platforms, the scripting part itself becomes a huge undertaking.
- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by Curious2   (47 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Wed 04 Feb 2009 09:16 PM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
What happened to this idea?
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Posted by Shadowfyr   USA  (1,774 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Wed 17 Oct 2007 07:16 PM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
Quote:
Generally, I think I just feel way safer and more comfortable with applications that I can control.


What? You're not into the whole, "Use silverlite to code you apps and the future is going to have Word, Excel, and anything else other than the browser stored on someone's server!", world vision of Gates (and sadly IBM...)? Neither am I. lol
main {
__if (Schrodinger_Cat is Alive or version >= "XP"){
____if version = "Vista" then Performance /= Number_of_Cores;
____call Functional_Code();}
__else
____call Crash_Windows();}
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Posted by David Haley   USA  (3,881 posts)  [Biography] bio   Moderator
Date Tue 16 Oct 2007 10:07 PM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
Oh, I don't really like the idea myself, in most cases. Well, that's too strong: I neither really like nor dislike it. The main (only?) advantage to such a client is that you don't need to install it; many public computers let you use the browser and Java applets therein, but not add programs.

Of course, if you can download a .jar, then you don't need to "install" it, so I think that the same purpose is served thus obviating the need for the browser solution.

I think the issues of safety are somewhat non-technical, in the sense that it's the same JRE that runs a Java application as a Java applet inside a browser. The one isn't going to be more or less reliable than the other. Configuration though is a considerable issue, since by default applets have no access to the file system. (You need applets to be 'signed' in order to give them access to certain privileged OS functions like file I/O. This is a fairly important security feature.)

But I also agree that I've never seen an applet I've been entirely happy with, but I'm not sure if that's due to applets per se, or due to the particular applets I happen to have seen thus far. :)
David Haley aka Ksilyan
Head Programmer,
Legends of the Darkstone

http://david.the-haleys.org
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Posted by Jammet   (14 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Tue 16 Oct 2007 09:39 PM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
Sorry that I'm repeating myself twice over :). Having it on a local harddrive is possible, but as you mentioned, it's not my thing if it's wrapped up using in the browser, flash, or java.

As for the reasons, well, there are several.

I'm not happy with the overall stability of browsers, or java applets or flash.

Standalone Java programs that simply require the Java-Runtime are fine though.

And I have yet to see a single Java/flash application that works for me, meaning usability, configuration, looks, performance, cpu hogging and what not. No two look alike, no two work alike, no two are configurable alike.

I need the configuration stored in my home directory like with all the other applications, where I can look at it, back it up, have full control over it.

There are several other reasons. Generally, I think I just feel way safer and more comfortable with applications that I can control. If they're the child processes of the children's childrens children, meaning encapsulated, wrapped up in a much bigger package, I can't warm up to them. Never played browser games twice for the same reason.

But again, that's just me. =) Your idea is brilliant and it's going to be great, no doubt. Just felt compelled to reply, outlining why I feel this way.


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Posted by David Haley   USA  (3,881 posts)  [Biography] bio   Moderator
Date Tue 16 Oct 2007 08:04 PM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
You could have a browser application stored on your local computer too, actually. Unless it needs to read files off of the server without talking to the server using HTTP (debatable whether a client needs to do that), you could just run the application in your browser from your local machine and have it connect to another computer.

Basically, the choice of language isn't really a limiting factor, even if it's browser-based technology, in terms of where you can run/store the program. Now, you still might prefer a standalone client over a client in the browser (but perhaps not for the reasons you might first think! it's kind of subtle) but that's a separate issue. (What I meant by that last comment is that a browser can, e.g., run a Java applet; you'd have nearly the full power of Java available to run your client which means you could do pretty much as you could have done in a normal Java app.)
David Haley aka Ksilyan
Head Programmer,
Legends of the Darkstone

http://david.the-haleys.org
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Posted by Jammet   (14 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Tue 16 Oct 2007 07:41 PM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
Of course I'm paying attention? I hope I didn't write anything that upsets you. Certainly didn't mean to. :)

The thing is, I do not know much anything about programming. I'm here because I like MUSHclient, and there's a chance to have something a lot like it become crossplatform.

I may be somewhat ignorant with what's practical and what's not without even realizing. However, I simply favour a program storied on my harddrive, a native binary, over anything based on a third party plugin, interpreter, browser or the likes.

So I went on describing what kind of client I'd hope the follow-up to MUSHclient is going to be like, that's really all there is to it. :)
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