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Posted by

BeardedBuddhist (21 posts)

Date

Reply #165 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 06:56 AM (UTC) [ quote ]

Message

Nick Gammon said:

Perhaps use cMUD? They have a mapper. And they advertise good customer support.

Hmm, maybe that is why Zugg makes more than enough from it to host his site, even enough to quite his job entirely and work solely on building a game client. Unfortunately, he spent an abundance of time on the mapper, creating features that I don't need, instead of creating a program that can correctly parse the intense sort of game that I play.

And your apathy had nothing to do with timeframe, if you are implying something with that. You apathy was well revealed in the 2 posts from stating you didn't have any clue was wrong because you couldn't be bothered to read over the script changes I linked.

Anyways... I do love MUSHclient, and I am sure I will get it work somehow, someway, or eventually settle. I stand by that it is awesome, and I would still recommend it to anyone with patience.

Posted by

Fiendish USA (848 posts)

bio Global Moderator

Date

Reply #166 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 10:50 AM (UTC) [ quote ]

Amended on Sun 06 Mar 2011 11:06 AM (UTC) by Fiendish

Message

Jeeeeesus. What has happened here? Is it too much to expect even a tiny bit of respect from someone who demands so much and offers so little in return?

Quote:
How is everyone else dealing with the mapper's lack of exit length functionality?

Welcome to the world that doesn't revolve around what YOU think is important.

Quote:
Sure not all muds give coordinates, but IRE muds do. Judging from what I can gather, IRE mudders make up at least half of the mudding community and probably a huge percentage of the people who use MUSCHclient.

I, in representation of the Aardwolf community, wish you would kindly fork yourself. And no that is not a mean-spirited euphemism. We're quite happy with the work that Nick has done. We have our own well developed fork of it that suits our needs, and we're rather glad that Nick never demonstrates IRE-specific myopia. If you want IRE specific additions, please consult with someone who actually understands how to code and who is interested in dealing with verbal abuse from someone who doesn't. Maybe they will make a fork for you in the same way that I have done for Aardwolf.

And now for a little lesson on how to ask for help:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

See specifically the sections on "When asking about code" and "On Not Reacting Like A Loser"

I swear, if anyone started pissing and moaning about something they were getting from me for free the way you're doing here with Nick I'd tell them to go flower themselves with a giant rusty flower.

http://aardwolfclientpackage.googlecode.com/

Posted by

BeardedBuddhist (21 posts)

Date

Reply #167 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 11:03 AM (UTC) [ quote ]

Amended on Sun 06 Mar 2011 11:10 AM (UTC) by BeardedBuddhist

Message

Okay, so in the midst of all the posting, there is a lot that went unaddressed. I hope to bring things to close with this.

@Nick: I have read through some of your forum, looked at some of your responses to people's question, and I have to say that I am disappointed, in myself. I should not have thought you would be completely helpful, and that is apparent when I see you refuse to help people, instead questioning their motives entirely, when even I, as a total lua/mush noob, can figure the solution. As helpful as you are in many instances, I have also noticed you often spend more energy refusing to be helpful. Had I had this in mind, I would surely have had more patience in my responses.

My apologies also for bothering you with my issue. I posted on this forum in hopes that someone, anyone, might help me, so I have to apologize that you seem to have taken it as a personal request to you. In hindsight, perhaps I should have made a new topic, or posted somewhere else, like the Achaea forums.

Also, man, you come at me like I am some kind of scripter. The truth is, while I could break a handful of ribs with one shin kick, then backflip over you, I simply cannot script my way out of a wet paperbag using anything other than tintin or zscript. I came here as a noob, and a frustrated one at that, asking for help about your program that I fell in love with, entirely ignorant. I didn't even know you could not tell what someone else's script did. So cut me a little slack will ya? ;)

@Twisol: You are awesome. Thank you so much for your help. After looking through your posts on the internet, I had you pegged as a scripting guru of sorts. I was certain if anybody could help me extend the exit lengths, it would have been you (and that you could not is very disheartening). Thanks again, your helpful responses did wonders for my frustration.

About the exit lengths, I still don't know what is going on. I can put Kairuni script addition in (which seems pretty straight forward, adding am alias to build a table that is read upon drawing room) and it works, but when I quit MC and restart, the exits are not drawn extend.. it is as if it not reading from the table or it is not saving it upon exit.

Yeehaw! ..maybe someday I will get it figured out.

Posted by

Fiendish USA (848 posts)

bio Global Moderator

Date

Reply #168 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 11:15 AM (UTC) [ quote ]

Amended on Sun 06 Mar 2011 11:17 AM (UTC) by Fiendish

Message

BeardedBuddhist said:
... blah blah blah ...

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Victim_playing

Quote:
I didn't even know ... So cut me a little slack will ya? ;)

From what I remember of the writings of Miss Manners, being uneducated as a programmer is not an excuse for disgusting behavior.

http://aardwolfclientpackage.googlecode.com/

Posted by

BeardedBuddhist (21 posts)

Date

Reply #169 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 11:19 AM (UTC) [ quote ]

Amended on Sun 06 Mar 2011 11:23 AM (UTC) by BeardedBuddhist

Message

Fiendish said:

Jeeeeesus. What has happened here? Is it too much to expect even a tiny bit of respect from someone who demands so much and offers so little in return?

Quote:
How is everyone else dealing with the mapper's lack of exit length functionality?

Welcome to the world that doesn't revolve around what YOU think is important.

Quote:
Sure not all muds give coordinates, but IRE muds do. Judging from what I can gather, IRE mudders make up at least half of the mudding community and probably a huge percentage of the people who use MUSCHclient.

I, in representation of the Aardwolf community, wish you would kindly fork yourself. And no that is not a mean-spirited euphemism. We're quite happy with the work that Nick has done. We have our own well developed fork of it that suits our needs, and we're rather glad that Nick never demonstrates IRE-specific myopia. If you want IRE specific additions, please consult with someone who actually understands how to code and who is interested in dealing with verbal abuse from someone who doesn't. Maybe they will make a fork for you in the same way that I have done for Aardwolf.

And now for a little lesson on how to ask for help:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

See specifically the sections on "When asking about code" and "On Not Reacting Like A Loser"

I swear, if anyone started pissing and moaning about something they were getting from me for free the way you're doing here with Nick I'd tell them to go flower themselves with a giant rusty flower.

I came here with patience, asking a sincere question. I apologize to you if I was a tiny bit rude without meaning to be, the only thing I can think of is maybe my frustration of not being able to fix something that had no reason to be broken took over. As far as asking questions, when you ask someone about something and they respond with basically "I don't know because I didn't bother to click on the link you gave you" then you have the patience of a saint not to let it bother you in the slightest. I apologized many times for letting my frustration show, but apparently that wasn't enough for you.

By the way, did you have anything to add, or are you just here to berate me?

----------------------
"I am a buddhist not because I was born with inner peace, but because it is something I am searching for."

Posted by

Twisol USA (2,229 posts)

Date

Reply #170 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 11:35 AM (UTC) [ quote ]

Amended on Sun 06 Mar 2011 11:36 AM (UTC) by Twisol

Message

BeardedBuddhist said:

@Nick: I have read through some of your forum, looked at some of your responses to people's question, and I have to say that I am disappointed, in myself. I should not have thought you would be completely helpful, and that is apparent when I see you refuse to help people, instead questioning their motives entirely, when even I, as a total lua/mush noob, can figure the solution. As helpful as you are in many instances, I have also noticed you often spend more energy refusing to be helpful. Had I had this in mind, I would surely have had more patience in my responses.

My apologies also for bothering you with my issue. I posted on this forum in hopes that someone, anyone, might help me, so I have to apologize that you seem to have taken it as a personal request to you. In hindsight, perhaps I should have made a new topic, or posted somewhere else, like the Achaea forums.

Wow, this is classic passive-aggressive behavior. Let me translate:

BeardedBuddhist said:
No wonder you didn't help me, those other poor saps hardly got any help either.

It's pretty obvious at this point that you're a jerkwad, so I'll take my questions elsewhere next time.

FWIW, I'm glad I could help at least somewhat. I'm just disappointed that you had to act this way.

'Soludra' on Achaea

Blog: http://jonathan.com/
GitHub: http://github.com/Twisol

Posted by

BeardedBuddhist (21 posts)

Date

Reply #171 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 11:40 AM (UTC) [ quote ]

Amended on Sun 06 Mar 2011 11:41 AM (UTC) by BeardedBuddhist

Message

Twisol said:

BeardedBuddhist said:

@Nick: I have read through some of your forum, looked at some of your responses to people's question, and I have to say that I am disappointed, in myself. I should not have thought you would be completely helpful, and that is apparent when I see you refuse to help people, instead questioning their motives entirely, when even I, as a total lua/mush noob, can figure the solution. As helpful as you are in many instances, I have also noticed you often spend more energy refusing to be helpful. Had I had this in mind, I would surely have had more patience in my responses.

My apologies also for bothering you with my issue. I posted on this forum in hopes that someone, anyone, might help me, so I have to apologize that you seem to have taken it as a personal request to you. In hindsight, perhaps I should have made a new topic, or posted somewhere else, like the Achaea forums.

Wow, this is classic passive-aggressive behavior. Let me translate:

BeardedBuddhist said:
No wonder you didn't help me, those other poor saps hardly got any help either.

It's pretty obvious at this point that you're a jerkwad, so I'll take my questions elsewhere next time.

FWIW, I'm glad I could help at least somewhat. I'm just disappointed that you had to act this way.

Your age is now obvious, but thank you for translating. What kind of a dick would I have been if I said what you said (but am I lying?). Yeah, I probably should have kept my opinion to myself, even refrained from posting at all, but honestly at first I didn't think I was at all being a jerk. Oh well, this proves I should just keep to myself.

Posted by

Fiendish USA (848 posts)

bio Global Moderator

Date

Reply #172 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 11:41 AM (UTC) [ quote ]

Amended on Sun 06 Mar 2011 11:53 AM (UTC) by Fiendish

Message

BeardedBuddhist said:
I came here with patience

No you didn't. You came here with crass expectations and demands and insults.

Quote:
asking a sincere question

And you provided, sincerely, a very poor level of information.

Quote:
I apologize to you if I was a tiny bit rude

More than just a tiny bit. Stop trying to play the victim.

Quote:
the only thing I can think of is maybe my frustration...

Again, stop trying to play the victim. Your expectation that people should just drop everything and rush to your aid is appalling.

Quote:
As far as asking questions, when you ask someone about something and they respond with basically "I don't know because I didn't bother to click on the link you gave you".

They didn't know because they couldn't evaluate the code. You did not provide the code. You provided some worthless garbage in the form of zero context snippets. Your links are useless. Get angry at yourself being ignorant of that fact.

Quote:
I apologized many times for letting my frustration show, but apparently that wasn't enough for you.

Forgive me for not believing in the sincerity of an apology that is preceded by and followed with rather direct insults.

Quote:
or are you just here to berate me?

It seems like you need it.

Quote:
I didn't think I was at all being a jerk.

Time to re-evaluate yourself, then. You now have several people telling you that you're being a jerk.

http://aardwolfclientpackage.googlecode.com/

Posted by

Twisol USA (2,229 posts)

Date

Reply #173 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 11:51 AM (UTC) [ quote ]

Message

BeardedBuddhist said:
I apologize to you if I was a tiny bit rude without meaning to be

Please. Really? You were downright insulting at times and you know it. Get some sleep and re-read the thread after you've woken up and you might be able to have a little empathy.

BeardedBuddhist said:
the only thing I can think of is maybe my frustration of not being able to fix something that had no reason to be broken took over.

Nick's mapper isn't what's broken, it's the patch created by someone else. Blizzard doesn't offer support for Warcraft mods, so there's no reason to expect him to solve a problem some third-party introduced. I even looked at the patch and couldn't really understand what it was doing (largely because it depends on understanding the relevant mapper.lua code around it).

'Soludra' on Achaea

Blog: http://jonathan.com/
GitHub: http://github.com/Twisol

Posted by

BeardedBuddhist (21 posts)

Date

Reply #174 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 11:51 AM (UTC) [ quote ]

Amended on Sun 06 Mar 2011 11:53 AM (UTC) by BeardedBuddhist

Message

Fiendish said:

Fiendish says, "blah blah blah."

Thank you, vigilante, for teaching me a lesson! I will sleep better now knowing you are out there, patrolling the internet for people to show a thing or two!

Got any more wikipedia links for me?

Pfft, I am done with this, that is, contributing to internet pollution with my garbage. Flame on, troll.

Posted by

Fiendish USA (848 posts)

bio Global Moderator

Date

Reply #175 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 11:53 AM (UTC) [ quote ]

Message

Would it be wrong of me to vote that last post as spam?

http://aardwolfclientpackage.googlecode.com/

Posted by

BeardedBuddhist (21 posts)

Date

Reply #176 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 12:02 PM (UTC) [ quote ]

Message

Twisol said:

BeardedBuddhist said:
I apologize to you if I was a tiny bit rude without meaning to be

Please. Really? You were downright insulting at times and you know it. Get some sleep and re-read the thread after you've woken up and you might be able to have a little empathy.

BeardedBuddhist said:
the only thing I can think of is maybe my frustration of not being able to fix something that had no reason to be broken took over.

Nick's mapper isn't what's broken, it's the patch created by someone else. Blizzard doesn't offer support for Warcraft mods, so there's no reason to expect him to solve a problem some third-party introduced. I even looked at the patch and couldn't really understand what it was doing (largely because it depends on understanding the relevant mapper.lua code around it).

I was simply trying to fix the ability to fix the exit lengths, by whatever means. I am sorry, I clearly mispoke if I said that Nick mapper was specifically broken (I remember clearly stating that I thought from the beginning it might be an issue with information from the mud itself).

I tried to achieve this with Dontarion's mapper, and I asked him specifically for help with it. He could not help me. I did get help from Kairuni himself even, but we weren't able to fix it and he had moved on to his own plugin so wasn't too much interesting in figuring out why mc wasn't reading and drawing from a table that it used to. So I came here... but apparently I am an asshole, so, whatever.

Posted by

Twisol USA (2,229 posts)

Date

Reply #177 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 12:07 PM (UTC) [ quote ]

Amended on Sun 06 Mar 2011 12:09 PM (UTC) by Twisol

Message

BeardedBuddhist said:

Twisol said:

Wow, this is classic passive-aggressive behavior. Let me translate:

BeardedBuddhist said:
No wonder you didn't help me, those other poor saps hardly got any help either.

It's pretty obvious at this point that you're a jerkwad, so I'll take my questions elsewhere next time.

FWIW, I'm glad I could help at least somewhat. I'm just disappointed that you had to act this way.

Your age is now obvious, but thank you for translating. What kind of a dick would I have been if I said what you said (but am I lying?). Yeah, I probably should have kept my opinion to myself, even refrained from posting at all, but honestly at first I didn't think I was at all being a jerk. Oh well, this proves I should just keep to myself.

I obviously took some comedic liberties, but it's pretty obvious that you don't have the highest opinion of Nick. (I also didn't say you were a jerk; I suggested you thought Nick was one. What I did say is that you're passive-aggressive.)

I'm trying to be civil, but after a certain point it gets ridiculous. Here are my parting thoughts:

1) Don't treat volunteers like they're obliged to help you. We reserve the right to refuse service.
2) Track down Kairuni and tell him what the problem is. The ideal situation would be to have a collaboration between Nick and Kairuni (since code from both of them is involved). [EDIT]: I guess you already did this.
3) I don't hold grudges, and I'd be glad to help you next time you stop by. Just stop it with the veiled aggression: I'd rather be told I'm a jerkwad to my face than it be subtly insinuated.

Anyways, I should go to bed. In fact, by all rights I should have stopped posting a while ago, but then we all know what happens when someone is wrong on the Internet [1].

[1] http://xkcd.com/386/

'Soludra' on Achaea

Blog: http://jonathan.com/
GitHub: http://github.com/Twisol

Posted by

Twisol USA (2,229 posts)

Date

Reply #178 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 12:08 PM (UTC) [ quote ]

Amended on Sun 06 Mar 2011 12:12 PM (UTC) by Twisol

Message

Fiendish said:

Would it be wrong of me to vote that last post as spam?

To be fair you weren't exactly a soothing influence. :P

[EDIT]: I can barely make a decent response without being ninja'd by two more replies, which suggests that tempers are hot and fingers hasty. BeardedBuddhist, I stand by my suggestion for you to take a break from this thread for a while.

'Soludra' on Achaea

Blog: http://jonathan.com/
GitHub: http://github.com/Twisol

Posted by

Nick Gammon Australia (18,770 posts)

bio Forum Administrator

Date

Reply #179 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 09:04 PM (UTC) [ quote ]

Message

I try to stay calm and usually find that helps keep other people calm as well.

BeardedBuddhist said:

For god's sake would y'all just look at the bloody script.. it would take less time than to type out to tell me you haven't seen the script.

This one?

http://pastebin.com/3L421QyT

Perhaps I was assuming too much when I said it was a patch. Maybe I assumed you knew what that meant. However I did look at it, I don't know how you could know I didn't.

A patch is like a list of changes. In itself, it won't run. It goes like "add this, change that". So you can't just read it and see the problem. You have to go back to the original, apply all the changes, to get the amended version.

Let me explain like this ... say you have a Kung Fu manual, and you get a message from HQ saying "change the word on line 5 of page 3 from 'always' to 'sometimes'".

In itself that tells you absolutely nothing about what the manual said to do before, and what it says to do now.

So to get anywhere I would have to get the original mapper (and it didn't say which of the versions I released this applies to), make the patches, log onto Achaea, and try to reproduce the problem.

And it is these "it used to work, I didn't change a thing, and now it doesn't work" problems that are notoriously hard to solve. And experience has shown that after a week of to-ing and fro-ing you often get the response of "well, yes I did re-install Windows, oh and I deleted the entire MUSHclient folder and reinstalled it, and I added a plugin from someone else's site - would that matter?" that you gradually get a clue as to the problem.

BeardedBuddhist said:

I have also noticed you often spend more energy refusing to be helpful ...

I don't think many forum visitors would agree with that. Often people respond along the lines of "wow! - I didn't expect such a detailed response, so quickly".

Sometimes however, when people post a question which is answered in the "getting started" sections, or in the YouTube videos I spent hours making, I think they haven't made the slightest attempt to find the answer for themselves. So sometimes my responses are a bit curt.

BeardedBuddhist said:

Adding to that frustration is knowing a decent scripter with a few minutes could fix what I have spent literally an entire day trying to just figure out.

Well you are guessing there, aren't you? Ask any programmer ... we can all tell how long it takes to boil a 3-minute egg, it is a well-defined problem. But finding bugs? And ones in code modified by other people, or that you didn't write in the first place?

The thing is, in your case, since there is a mapping database, the problem might be there. Looking at the code might tell absolutely nothing. You might need to look at the interrelationship between the database, the code, and the particular part of the MUD you are in. And perhaps the way you have configured your personal player options. Like the GMCP or ATCP options. For all I know, if you typed in some MUD command it would all come good. And bearing in mind that IRE change the way their MUDs work, and the protocols being sent to the client. They don't keep me abreast of those changes.

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com

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