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MUSHclient version 4?

MUSHclient version 4?

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Posted by

Nick Gammon Australia (23,042 posts)

bio Forum Administrator

Date

Reply #30 on Sat 18 Dec 2004 01:39 AM (UTC)

Message

I must admit it was easier than I thought. I have added the tabbed interface, see screenshot below. I hope that was what you had in mind, Linda. :)

You can have them at the bottom or top, I suppose that had better be an option.

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com

Posted by

Nick Gammon Australia (23,042 posts)

bio Forum Administrator

Date

Reply #31 on Sat 18 Dec 2004 01:58 AM (UTC)

Message

Quote:

But I do know first hand that the lack of spawned windows have been a deal-breaker when people (MUSHers, specifically) have chosen between MUSHclient and SimpleMU.

Having got the tabs out of the way, is there a major difference between spawned windows, as you call them, and the ability in MUSHclient so send chats and whatever to notepad windows? Is it the colour? The fact they won't eventually fill up? Something else?

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com

Posted by Nick Gammon Australia (23,042 posts) bio Forum Administrator

Date

Reply #32 on Sat 18 Dec 2004 02:25 AM (UTC)

Amended on Sat 18 Dec 2004 03:53 AM (UTC) by Nick Gammon

Message

Thesaurus

I downloaded Wordnet as Shadowfyr suggested. The Windows version just installed very simply, and the default Windows-interface program brings up a nice window where you can look up the meanings of words and their synonmys. It is actually very good. Look up "babble" for example and you get four senses of the word, and a whole heap of synonyms.

It seems to me that just having that there would go a long way to having a thesaurus handy. After all, a quick copy and paste and you are done.

It also has a command-line interface, so it could be captured by a plugin (by executing an operating system command and capturing the output), like this:






c:\WordNet\2.0\> wn babble -over



Overview of noun babble



The noun babble has 1 sense (no senses from tagged texts)



1. babble, babbling, lallation -- (gibberish resembling the sounds of a baby)



Overview of verb babble



The verb babble has 4 senses (first 2 from tagged texts)



1. (3) babble -- (utter meaningless sounds, like a baby, or utter in an incoherent way; "The old man is only babbling--don't pay attention")

2. (2) babble, blather, smatter, blether, blither -- (to talk foolishly; "The two women babbled and crooned at the baby")

3. ripple, babble, guggle, burble, bubble, gurgle -- (flow in an irregular current with a bubbling noise; "babbling brooks")

4. spill the beans, let the cat out of the bag, talk, tattle, blab, peach, babble, sing, babble out, blab out -- (divulge confidential information or secrets; "

Be careful--his secretary talks")

I'm not sure what you would do with that. You still need to select the correct sense of the word, and choose the synomym you want (if that is what you want it for).

In this case, I don't know that an inbuilt solution gives you much more than this standalone one.

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com

Posted by

Nick Gammon Australia (23,042 posts)

bio Forum Administrator

Date

Reply #33 on Sat 18 Dec 2004 03:56 AM (UTC)

Message

This is what the GUI interface looks like:

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com

Posted by

Feantur (70 posts)

Date

Reply #34 on Sat 18 Dec 2004 03:58 AM (UTC)

Message

Just a quick note @ tabbed windows: YAY! :-)

Posted by

Nick Gammon Australia (23,042 posts)

bio Forum Administrator

Date

Reply #35 on Sat 18 Dec 2004 06:42 AM (UTC)

Message

Just to motivate people who want a bit more core functionality, a few more fun things will appear in the next version. The tabbed windows are a nice touch, and then I looked at the ANSI and custom window configurations.

You can now lighten or darken, or add or reduce saturation of the custom colours.

And then for maximum fun, the "random" button. This lets you change your entire ANSI colour set to one chosen at random. You can get some pretty interesting colour schemes that way! You saw it here first. :P

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com

Posted by

Feantur (70 posts)

Date

Reply #36 on Sat 18 Dec 2004 06:46 AM (UTC)

Message

I once had a nice colour trigger set up: it coloured every letter in another, completely randomly chosen colour. Not a lot for readability, but surely made great screenshots. ;-)

Posted by

Flannel USA (1,230 posts)

Date

Reply #37 on Sat 18 Dec 2004 07:24 AM (UTC)

Amended on Sat 18 Dec 2004 07:26 AM (UTC) by Flannel

Message

tabbed windows is disable-able, correct?

Bottom, top, None?

Looks like its going to behave like a toolbar (which would imply on/off).
I assume yes, but just making sure.

Edit: And Nick, that looks really nice. Even if I wont ever use it.

~Flannel

Messiah of Rose
Eternity's Trials.

Clones are people two.

Posted by

Nick Gammon Australia (23,042 posts)

bio Forum Administrator

Date

Reply #38 on Sat 18 Dec 2004 08:05 AM (UTC)

Message

Exactly. None, top or bottom.

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com

Posted by

David Haley USA (3,881 posts)

Date

Reply #39 on Sat 18 Dec 2004 09:29 AM (UTC)

Message

Looking great, Nick. That's exactly what I would have expected.

(See, it's not always that bad! *grin*)

David Haley aka Ksilyan
Head Programmer,
Legends of the Darkstone

http://david.the-haleys.org

Posted by

Linda Sweden (164 posts)

Date

Reply #40 on Sat 18 Dec 2004 09:47 AM (UTC)

Amended on Sat 18 Dec 2004 10:50 AM (UTC) by Linda

Message

The tabbed windows look great. :)

Are they currently capable of showing status & activity like the activity toolbar, btw? I have one program, EditPlus, where a changed but not saved file gets a little red star in front of the tab name instead of a blue one (the default), but whether that is easy to accomplish or not I don't know.

The thesaurus solution sounds pretty good actually. My initial thought had been something like what Word does, where you can right-click on a word and it brings up a menu which includes Synonyms. If you then mouse down to Synonyms, it pops out a list of such for the selected word. But that probably would require it to actually be installed into MUSHclient.

Regarding the spawned windows, I think that are a couple of issues with using notepad windows (at least, as I currently understand how it would work) to simulate them.

First of all, they can't (as I understand it) have a separate input window. This, as it see it, is a crucial feature for real spawned windows, as it really allows you to separate out specific channels, pages etc completely. Without that, I can't really see the benefit to the 'workflow', so to speak.

If you have a separate input window, you can type your pose in your main output window, and take a brief pause to answer a page in another window, without having to first copy and cut out for later your half-finished pose. Believe me, I do this too many times a day, and its no fun at all when you lose the pose because you copy something else. ;)

It could also allow for you to, in those spawned windows, simply type your message instead of having to remember channel prefixes, names for paging and so on. The window would automatically handle that bit, turning 'Hello' into '+pub Hello', for example. Ideally, it would allow me to do '+pub Hello' as well, and recognize that as the 'right' expression, for maximum flexibility.

Secondly, the size limit of the notepad could be a problem, especially if you want to keep a channel discussion going throughout a whole session. If you forget to log and would like to capture the whole backlog of an important discussion, it wouldn't be a good idea if they have to periodically empty themselves out to keep from being filled up.

Thirdly, they're sort of 'out of the way'. I actually use the notepad pretty rarely because I always forget I have the windows open, since they don't show up on the activity toolbar.

In some thread or other from last year, which I've been trying to find again, there was some talk about how real spawned windows could use a tabbed interface in interesting ways. I believe one of the ideas was to have spawned windows noted on the tab somehow (perhaps with a number indicating how many spawns you have), and accessible as a kind of drop-down menu when you right-click on the tab (and maybe anywhere else in that world).

Posted by

Shadowfyr USA (1,787 posts)

Date

Reply #41 on Sat 18 Dec 2004 06:05 PM (UTC)

Message

To the Thesaurus issue. Glad to see it really works. lol I didn't install it to find out, just gave that as an example of how you can actually find stuff that could be integrated, instead of relying on the somewhat questionable theory of paying someone for every addon. As for integration vs. non-integration. Integrated, like Linda mentioned, you could have the word you right click on pop up a window not unlike the one already available, then automatically replace the word you clicked on when you select the word you want and click OK. Having it external is the same problem as with some other 'solutions' people have found for things. You need a) to know it exists, b) know where to get it and c) even if provided with the client, if not accessable from the client people are not going to understand why not.

As for the spawned windows. Linda covered most of it. However, the one advantage that your extended toolbar gadget has is that it exists 'outside' the main window. This allows it to be dropped on the desktop and allows for other applications to be open there as well, without either expanding the client to fill the screen (thus burying other applications) or making you place it above or below the world window, which robs you of lines of text in the main world window. This may still be easier to manage as a customizable window run through scripts, but to go that route creates issues as well. You can't just open on, click a few buttons to configure what it does (like telling it to use the say command for everything) and just use it. Also, as a plugin, it isn't something there by default, it has to be added manually. It also, in the short term, locks people into using and ActiveX control, which means coming up with a different solution later on anyway, when you eventually design a full linux version. For me, the deal breaker though is forcing it to appear in the same MDI space as the world window. That is best left to the worlds imho, not secondary, but related windows, which is one of the things that made notepads so annoying to a lot of people already. Other than that issue, I agree with Linda's assessment of what such windows should be designed to do.

Posted by

Linda Sweden (164 posts)

Date

Reply #42 on Sat 18 Dec 2004 06:35 PM (UTC)

Message

I don't personally think that spawned windows are secondary windows in the same way as a notepad, since they do concern activities that take place in a specific world. A notepad window, on the other hand, could be use for creating a grocery list while MU*ing. ;)

However, I do think it would be ideal if a spawned windows solution could please as many people as possible. Perhaps it would be possible to make it so that you can choose whether the spawns appear in the regular MDI space or whether they are free floating in some fashion? However, I can't think of an application where you can have windows belonging to it exist outside of the main application window, so maybe that isn't doable.

Posted by

Shadowfyr USA (1,787 posts)

Date

Reply #43 on Sat 18 Dec 2004 06:51 PM (UTC)

Message

I see programs that mix them all the time., it is anything but impossible.

Posted by

Nick Gammon Australia (23,042 posts)

bio Forum Administrator

Date

Reply #44 on Sat 18 Dec 2004 07:19 PM (UTC)

Message

Quote:

Are they currently capable of showing status & activity like the activity toolbar, btw?

They don't at this stage. The snippet I found on the Web just shows the window title. I'll take a look at how it works and see if I can add some sort of status. This is where these things blow out in time. The initial idea works OK until the enhancements take a week of extra work to get right. ;)

Quote:

If you have a separate input window, you can type your pose in your main output window, and take a brief pause to answer a page in another window, without having to first copy and cut out for later your half-finished pose.

I just want to point out that this particular issue is available right now, in MUSHclient. Just select Window -> New Window, and you get a copy of the current world window including a separate input area.

Now I agree it doesn't filter the output text, you see the same things as in the original window (although you can pause it at the message from the other player you are replying to). However you shouldn't be losing half-typed poses even now.

The intention of this thread when I started it was not to find all possible enhancements that people want, but any comparatively minor ones that could be added so a new "official" version can be released by Christmas.

I think that the current one, with the tabs, and various extra features, can be a candidate for that. I'll make that available later today, and if not too many bugs are found, then that can become version 4.

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com

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