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 Entire forum ➜ MUSHclient ➜ Plugins ➜ Mapper for Achaea
Mapper for Achaea

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Posted by BeardedBuddhist   (21 posts)  Bio
Date Reply #150 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 04:37 AM (UTC)
Message
Twisol said:

Right, but where are you putting it? It's not Lua code, and the .db file is a binary format. The CREATE TABLE etc. stuff is an SQL command used to configure a database.


Hrmm.. I have been putting it in the ATCP_Mapper.xml, in between the other CREATE TABLE IF NOT EXISTS <blah>.
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Posted by Twisol   USA  (2,257 posts)  Bio
Date Reply #151 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 04:43 AM (UTC)
Message
Hmm, yeah. That looks right. I'm not sure what the problem is, particularly if it was working previously. Maybe Nick can weigh in.

(I may as well note that I've been trying to solve this for an hour. My original post took about ten minutes.)
'Soludra' on Achaea

Blog: http://jonathan.com/
GitHub: http://github.com/Twisol
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Posted by BeardedBuddhist   (21 posts)  Bio
Date Reply #152 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 04:59 AM (UTC)
Message
Twisol said:

Hmm, yeah. That looks right. I'm not sure what the problem is, particularly if it was working previously. Maybe Nick can weigh in.

(I may as well note that I've been trying to solve this for an hour. My original post took about ten minutes.)



Yeah, I am really stumped on this one.

Twice I have been able to follow the instructions and have it work, saving between sessions. A week plus later, now when I do the same way, numerous times (to minimize chance for error), it still won't save the extended exits.

My initial, and reoccurring, thought is that perhaps something has changed in the atcp output from the mud (that is perhaps over-riding the tabled additions), but I am still new to this ATCP stuff.



How is everyone else dealing with the mapper's lack of exit length functionality? I am certain everyone doesn't walk around with an entirely jacked up map..
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Posted by Twisol   USA  (2,257 posts)  Bio
Date Reply #153 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 05:09 AM (UTC)
Message
BeardedBuddhist said:
How is everyone else dealing with the mapper's lack of exit length functionality? I am certain everyone doesn't walk around with an entirely jacked up map..

Honestly, I don't really use a map. When I play Achaea I use a simple plugin that copies the output of the MAP command as I walk, gags it, and displays it in a miniwindow off to the side. I don't need anything more full-featured because I always made ASCII maps of places I've been to, so I have most of Achaea's geography committed to memory.
'Soludra' on Achaea

Blog: http://jonathan.com/
GitHub: http://github.com/Twisol
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (23,133 posts)  Bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #154 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 05:11 AM (UTC)
Message
BeardedBuddhist said:


For god's sake would y'all just look at the bloody script.. it would take less time than to type out to tell me you haven't seen the script.

I am disappointed that all I keep hearing is "oh well."



To be fair to those of us that aren't leaping in to solve this ...


  • What you posted, as far as I can see, isn't the script, it is changes, and not as a "diff" file, but you have to manually go and apply them to the mapper. And it doesn't specifically say which version.

  • When something works, and then stops working for no obvious reason, is generally one of those bugs you will spend the next two days on, not 10 minutes.

  • I haven't looked at the mapper personally for a while, so I would have to come back up to speed at what it does.

  • Then I would have to work out what the changes were, to draw different length exits.

  • Then I would have to log onto Achaea and walk around for a while (assuming my character isn't dead, which I think it is) to build up the database

  • Then I would have to hope the problem occurs, and work out why, or if it didn't, try to work out why not

  • It might be your database, as Twisol is suggesting, I think. If you close the client, and then rename the database, and then restart it so it recreates it, that may or may not solve the problem.

  • It's Sunday afternoon. It's hot. It's been a long week.


I don't want to seem unhelpful, but when people modify my mapper and add fancy new features, that then stop working for some reason, I think it is reasonable to approach the authors of the changes to ask why the new feature isn't working.
- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by BeardedBuddhist   (21 posts)  Bio
Date Reply #155 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 05:31 AM (UTC)

Amended on Sun 06 Mar 2011 05:39 AM (UTC) by BeardedBuddhist

Message
Nick Gammon said:


I don't want to seem unhelpful, but when people modify my mapper and add fancy new features, that then stop working for some reason, I think it is reasonable to approach the authors of the changes to ask why the new feature isn't working.


I clearly worded myself incorrectly. It was never my intention to find out why the specific changes weren't working. It was my intention to get your program's mapper to function as anything that calls itself a mapper should. I had it doing what it was supposed to, and if you would have looked at the bloody script changes I linked you, twice, you would have clearly seen that was simply creating a table and then rereading the table upon drawing the exit lines. And to be fair, why isn't this feature in the mapper already?.. Kairuni's mapper plugin automatically sets the room where it is supposed to be based off the same information your mapper plugin gets.


Sorry if I sound a little offended, I am. You have offered no help, sitting there telling me oh well the whole time. Hell, you didn't even bother to read the script changes, which even as a complete other-than-tinin noob, I could understand.

I guess it all wouldn't have mattered if I hadn't set myself on giving you a donation already. I have to apologize that my disappointment came out.

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Posted by Twisol   USA  (2,257 posts)  Bio
Date Reply #156 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 05:52 AM (UTC)

Amended on Sun 06 Mar 2011 05:56 AM (UTC) by Twisol

Message
Nobody here is paid to work on MUSHclient. Nick and other contributors work on these components because they either want them personally or they want to help other users. The fact that Nick spent the time writing a mapper at all is fantastic, and it works very well. What doesn't work well is demanding changes and flinging epithets.

Since you already resolved to part with some cash/credits, Vadimuses is selling a curing system, which also includes a mapper with built-in exit lengths, downloadable map updates, and full technical support [1]. You'll have to track down Baatti's plugin to put the mapper output into a miniwindow, but it shouldn't be hard to find on the Achaea forums.

(There's also a free vadimapper separated from the curing system, but it blocks all ATCP data from coming in to MUSHclient, so I don't recommend it.)

[1] http://vadisystems.com/vadi-m/
'Soludra' on Achaea

Blog: http://jonathan.com/
GitHub: http://github.com/Twisol
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (23,133 posts)  Bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #157 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 05:54 AM (UTC)
Message
BeardedBuddhist said:

And to be fair, why isn't this feature in the mapper already?


Many MUDs don't supply coordinates. So there is no way of working out exit lengths.

Quote:

Hell you didn't even bother to read the script changes ...


I read them. Nothing struck me as obviously wrong. And you said yourself it used to work.
- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by BeardedBuddhist   (21 posts)  Bio
Date Reply #158 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 05:57 AM (UTC)

Amended on Sun 06 Mar 2011 06:02 AM (UTC) by BeardedBuddhist

Message
Twisol said:

Nobody here is paid to work on MUSHclient.



Ahh, my mistake. I was under the assumption that MUSHclient was written primarily and owned by Nick, along with the website and the account linked to the donation button.


It is one thing to not know and I can even appreciate not helping me.. but do me a favour and don't tell me you're not going to bother to helpe me, it only adds to the frustration already experiencing.

Again, my apologies for not walking away it before my emotions showed.
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (23,133 posts)  Bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #159 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 05:57 AM (UTC)
Message
Thanks Twisol.

My post was a bit shorter than the original (I thought better of some of it). But to summarize the bits I deleted, it worked when I wrote it. Then people change things, including the way IRE sends data to the client. I don't have any control over that. IRE makes money out of MUDs. I don't, unless you count a couple of donations a month, which don't even pay for maintaining this web site.
- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by Twisol   USA  (2,257 posts)  Bio
Date Reply #160 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 05:59 AM (UTC)

Amended on Sun 06 Mar 2011 06:01 AM (UTC) by Twisol

Message
BeardedBuddhist said:
Seriously though, I can appreciate not helping me.. but do me a favour and don't tell me you're not helping me, it only adds to the frustration already experiencing.

I'm glad to know my hour of debugging went to a good cause.
'Soludra' on Achaea

Blog: http://jonathan.com/
GitHub: http://github.com/Twisol
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (23,133 posts)  Bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #161 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 06:02 AM (UTC)
Message
BeardedBuddhist said:

... but do me a favour and don't tell me you're not helping me, it only adds to the frustration already experiencing.


The thing that isn't working was written by someone else. I thought it might speed things up to suggest you contact them.
- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by BeardedBuddhist   (21 posts)  Bio
Date Reply #162 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 06:29 AM (UTC)
Message
Twisol said:

BeardedBuddhist said:
Seriously though, I can appreciate not helping me.. but do me a favour and don't tell me you're not going to bother to help me, it only adds to the frustration already experiencing.

I'm glad to know my hour of debugging went to a good cause.


Uh, it did, I thought so anyway. That comment was definitely more directed at Nick, who has seemingly been apathetic from the start. Sure you were initially dismissive of me, but you did end up trying to help, which vastly helped to relieve some frustration. I'll have to thank you again for that, if it is worth anything to you I have credits on Achaea ready for transfer.


@Nick about coordinates from muds:
Sure not all muds give coordinates, but IRE muds do. Judging from what I can gather, IRE mudders make up at least half of the mudding community and probably a huge percentage of the people who use MUSCHclient. I would venture to guess that if the default mapping plugin didn't draw rooms on top of each other when there are already proven ways to fix it, it would probably be a lot more popular.


Since I prefer the default mapper setup to other mappers people have created (so far, anyways), I had hoped to get it functioning. ..But it is starting to feel like a lost cause, judging from that Nick seems to be uninterested in his own and that the community's reputable scripters have decided to create their own mapper plugins.

I don't want to sound like an ingrate. I appreciate all the help so far, and I would still love to get it working again since it fit so well with the custom layout I was building, and I could figure out how to change the background image. Again, thanks for every bit of help, it is not for naught (if nothing else, I am learning more about scripting).
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Posted by Twisol   USA  (2,257 posts)  Bio
Date Reply #163 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 06:36 AM (UTC)

Amended on Sun 06 Mar 2011 06:41 AM (UTC) by Twisol

Message
BeardedBuddhist said:
Uh, it did, I thought so anyway. [...] I'll have to thank you again for that, if it is worth anything to you I have credits on Achaea ready for transfer.

No, please don't worry about it. If I want to volunteer I'll do it because I like helping people, not because I want to be paid. (I have a job for that!)

BeardedBuddhist said:
Since I prefer the default mapper setup to other mappers people have created (so far, anyways), I had hoped to get it functioning. ..But it is starting to feel like a lost cause, judging from that Nick seems to be uninterested in his own and that the community's reputable scripters have decided to create their own mapper plugins.

His mapper is a pretty recent addition (at least on the MUD timescale). I've had my MapWindow plugin for ages, and Vadi's had an automapper as long as I can remember. Nick wanted a generic mapper that could have different frontends plugged into it. Putting aside the disparity between what the mapper has and what you think it should have, it does take effort to design a good solution that can be used for many MUDs.

IIRC he developed it primarily while playing on Aardwolf, which goes back to my point about building something because you want it. (Aardwolf has no exit-length issue, as adjacent rooms are the same distance apart.)
'Soludra' on Achaea

Blog: http://jonathan.com/
GitHub: http://github.com/Twisol
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (23,133 posts)  Bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #164 on Sun 06 Mar 2011 06:38 AM (UTC)
Message
Quote:

BeardedBuddhist (15 posts) [Biography] bio
Date Sun 06 Mar 2011 02:43 AM [Edit message] edit [Delete message] delete [ bbpost_id=66599 ]

Amended on Sun 06 Mar 2011 02:44 AM by BeardedBuddhist
Message
Argh! MUSHCLIENT is amazing, but also infinitely frustrating in its magnificence.


...
15 hours later ...
...

Quote:

BeardedBuddhist (15 posts) [Biography] bio
Date Sun 06 Mar 2011 05:29 PM [Edit message] edit [Delete message] delete [ bbpost_id=66644 ]

Message
Twisol said:

BeardedBuddhist said:
Seriously though, I can appreciate not helping me.. but do me a favour and don't tell me you're not going to bother to help me, it only adds to the frustration already experiencing.

I'm glad to know my hour of debugging went to a good cause.


Uh, it did, I thought so anyway. That comment was definitely more directed at Nick, who has seemingly been apathetic from the start.


Sorry then if I seemed apathetic, on Sunday, when your problem with code I didn't write, wasn't resolved within 15 hours. The initial post was at 2:43 am my time, when I was asleep.

Perhaps use cMUD? They have a mapper. And they advertise good customer support.
- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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