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Is ColdCore MUD better than DoT?

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Posted by Microp   USA  (68 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Thu 05 Sep 2002 05:14 AM (UTC)  quote  ]
Message
I came across another mud codebase that struck my fancy -ColdC located at: http://web.cold.org/

I don't know a whole lot about programming (though I'm learning) and I could use some translation as concerns the ColdC features vs. DoT features.

Flexibility is key, I want a codebase that is very flexible and can be heavily customized.

Any assistance and guidance would greatly be appreciated. If you wish to email me at: talonthalas@hotmail.com and point me in the right direction to decide once and for all which codebase to choose that would be wonderful and would save me alot of time.

I've spent the last five/six months playing around with different codebases and though I am fond of DoT I'm starting to get cold feet after having a look at ColdC.

For you hard-core programmers out there, I hoping you'll give a newbie some help.

-----------
Nick, while I remember is there anyway to change my forum password - I've been around for several months and each time I try to login I find I've forgotten my password. Just wondering.
-----------

-Rob
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (19,494 posts)  [Biography] bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #1 on Thu 05 Sep 2002 05:51 AM (UTC)  quote  ]
Message
Quote:

Nick, while I remember is there anyway to change my forum password - I've been around for several months and each time I try to login I find I've forgotten my password. Just wondering.


Click on "Edit Profile" near the top of this page, and then the "change your password" link.

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (19,494 posts)  [Biography] bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #2 on Thu 05 Sep 2002 05:57 AM (UTC)  quote  ]
Message
Quote:

I've spent the last five/six months playing around with different codebases and though I am fond of DoT I'm starting to get cold feet after having a look at ColdC.


It isn't obvious from their web page exactly what the ColdC codebase does - it might be flexible, but sometimes things can be *too* flexible. :)

As I mentioned in my email to you, one possible alternative to DoT is PennMUSH - provided you want that sort of atmosphere.

PennMUSH (and similar codebases like MUCKs) are user-extendible, that is, any player can add their own rooms, objects, exits and so on. They also don't force you to buy food and drink water just to stay alive. They are more "social" MUDs, whereas Diku-derivates (including DoT) tend to be more combat oriented. I can't really comment on ColdC as I haven't seen much detail about it.

I suggest you post your requirements in more detail (eg. do you want players to build?) otherwise it is hard to say which might be better for you, or even to know what features you are looking for.

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by Microp   USA  (68 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #3 on Thu 05 Sep 2002 09:18 AM (UTC)  quote  ]
Message
Quote:

As I mentioned in my email to you, one possible alternative to DoT is PennMUSH - provided you want that sort of atmosphere.


PennMush is a social mud codebase - and I am planning a combat oriented, heavily detailed, rpg style mud. Like you told me awhile back - in the PennMush codebase you have to program it to say "You are unable to go in that direction." when you try to go north when there's no exit north - default PennMush just says "Huh?". That's alittle to.. basic. There are some features in the more advanced codebases that I wish to keep - "You are unable to go in that direction." is a good example of one of them.

Quote:

I suggest you post your requirements in more detail (eg. do you want players to build?) otherwise it is hard to say which might be better for you, or even to know what features you are looking for.


Good idea.. here I am asking for help yet I'm not including what I need help with ;-)

Planned Mud Features..

1) Multi-user: this game will eventually be online and available for everyone to play - I'm not building it for myself or just for my friends. But for any and everyone.

2) Heavily detailed: rpg driven world, it will not be a chat room. I want players to lose themselves in my game. Become someone different.

3) Combat oriented: players battle npc creatures and eachother (PK allowed).

4) Experience increases PC stats: (the basic RPG model) the more creatures you battle the more exp you gain and the better you get. To take it a step further in non-combat related skills such as "fire-building", the more you succeed in attempting to build a fire the better you get at it.

5) Continued from #4 -Skills: Several combat and non-combat skills.

6) A heavily customized combat system: I'll do my best to reduce the "hack n slash" boredom of most muds. When you attack something instead of it repeatedly saying "You attack <creature> causing -5 in damage." (Like ROM uses) It will say some random things like "Gripping your bronze sword in one hand you feint a blow, then strick a succesful stab doing severe damage." Unimaginative/bad example perhaps, but hopefully you get the idea.

7) NON-Magical: It will be based on reality, i.e. no spells or magic weapons. Since nearly all the more advanced codebases are magical by default (such as Smaug and DoT) I'll have to figure out a way to make it Non-magical.

8) Players do not build rooms, create objects or mobiles. They simple explore the world, interact with PC and NPCs, and advance there character. Players won't be exposed to the codebase.

9) Other features such as weather (which DoT has) and a heavily costomized room and mobile -- ran_dom aka atmoshpere aka sayings (example - say you are in a bar you'd see outputted "A waistress walks in carrying a plate of roasted meat." -- program.

These are very broad categories, if it's important I can expand on any of them to give further detail. I'm hoping this mud seems possible in DoT. Or maybe ColdC would be better. I'm honestly at a loss as to which codebase on the internet to choose.

I've made several copy-right agreements with owners of photo galleries so I can include their photos on my mud's website, say you are in the mud and you see "A red sand frog" next to you, you can pop over to the website, type in "red sand frog" and a picture of it pops up. I've over 1,000+ photos ready and waiting. Thankfully, I know alot more about HTML than I do about C/Mud programming

I've a long way to go and alot to learn, but I will get there and this mud will be built.

==============================

Annoying newbie questions..

Not to get off topic but I think it best I know this before I go any further. What (basically) can I accomplish by editting DoT's soft-code and what things must I edit the hard-code inorder to accomplish? The difference between soft/hard-code?

Softcode can be edited using the OLC and without and knowledge of C/C++, and Hardcoding can only be edited if you DO know C/C++.. right?

In the DoT directory, where is the softcoding located and where is the hardcoding located?

I've purchased several books on C programming but it will be awhile before I'm competant enough to understand any of it.

This is already long enough so I'll stop here.

-Rob
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Posted by Microp   USA  (68 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #4 on Thu 05 Sep 2002 09:25 AM (UTC)  quote  ]
Message
Nick,

It's 5am and once more I am wondering where the night went, lucky I don't have to work today =)

When this game gets online I'm going to plaster your name all over the "Credits" section (assuming you let me). I wouldn't of gotten this far without the help of this forum. And Kal *Mr. Bigshot* too hehe.
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Posted by Microp   USA  (68 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #5 on Fri 13 Sep 2002 11:35 PM (UTC)  quote  ]
Message
It's been a week since my last post. I'm patient but I am hoping someone can help me with the above questions.
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Posted by Kalahn   United Kingdom  (138 posts)  [Biography] bio   Moderator
Date Reply #6 on Sat 14 Sep 2002 02:58 PM (UTC)  quote  ]
Message
I don't think there is any black and white answer for a question like this. The systems are too different and both have different merits.

It is like asking if a mud which originates from a Diku base is better than an LP based mud. They are different and different people will prefer different codebases for varying reasons.

Why don't you answer the question yourself?
Which is going to be better for what you are trying to achieve?

I would be interested to know what you end up choosing, and why.

- Kal

Kalahn
Developer of the Dawn of Time codebase
http://www.dawnoftime.org/
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (19,494 posts)  [Biography] bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #7 on Sat 14 Sep 2002 11:52 PM (UTC)  quote  ]
Message
Quote:

Planned Mud Features..
[snip]


Most or all of what you describe is available now in ROM, SMAUG or DoT (and other Diku-derivates). I haven't commented before because I don't know anything about ColdCore MUD, so I can't say whether it does them better.

I would try a couple (eg. DoT and ColdCore) on your own or with a couple of friends, and see how friendly it is to play, to administer, and to extend.

Many people who are an expert in one codebase (eg. DoT) will not also be an expert in a completely different one, so that is probably why no-one has replied.

Quote:

Not to get off topic but I think it best I know this before I go any further. What (basically) can I accomplish by editting DoT's soft-code and what things must I edit the hard-code in order to accomplish? The difference between soft/hard-code?

Softcode can be edited using the OLC and without and knowledge of C/C++, and Hardcoding can only be edited if you DO know C/C++.. right?

In the DoT directory, where is the softcoding located and where is the hardcoding located?


Softcode can be edited with OLC, and without a knowledge of C, yes, however you need a knowledge of the softcode system, of course. AFAIK DoT provides softcode for Mob programs, so they can interact with you. Hard code is if you want to change things beyond the scope of what the softcode does, or things that are hard-coded into the server. For hardcode you need to edit and recompile the source, and thus need to know C/C++.

You might change the hardcode to add totally new features (eg. vehicles) or change the way the combat system works.

The softcode would be in the area files for each area, the hard code is in the "src" directory, which is the C++ source.

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by Daos   USA  (42 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #8 on Wed 02 Oct 2002 07:58 PM (UTC)  quote  ]
Message
I just reviewed ColdX & Genesis source codes and quite frankly, it is nothing in particular to brag about.
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Posted by Cirin   USA  (19 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #9 on Thu 21 Nov 2002 04:20 PM (UTC)  quote  ]
Message
To be perfectly honest, Microp, I've been coding for ~5 years. I had been out of it all for the past year or so and when I came back I was going to use a Godwars code as my base. As far as flexibility goes GW codes are fairly flexible in-code but then I stumbled upon Dawn.

As far as flexibility and ease of use I have never seen a better code. You could have no clue how to code and make a completely original mud using the DoT codebase. It takes a while to get used to and if you're jumping in the code it takes a bit to really know your way around, although it is very well done.

For everything that you're looking to do I think that DoT would be your best bet. You "could" do it with any codebase, but you could do it rather quickly and easily with DoT.

I've only been working with the code for a couple weeks now and it's hard to get used to being able to add everything online instead of having to sit on your editor or in your code.

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Posted by Kassah   (1 post)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #10 on Sat 10 May 2003 11:30 AM (UTC)  quote  ]
Message
Quote:
I've spent the last five/six months playing around with different codebases and though I am fond of DoT I'm starting to get cold feet after having a look at ColdC.

For you hard-core programmers out there, I hoping you'll give a newbie some help.


ColdC is not for the light of heart.

With that said, I spent two years looking for a codebase before I settled on ColdC.

The important things for me that ColdC satisfied were:

  • Stability in the Core (I have yet to crash a server when not trying it on an untested platform)
  • No down-time, not for upgrades, not for anything. (the genesis driver is quite stable and able to stay running for extremely long periods of time under high loads.)
  • Takes care of multitasking and Networking... (ColdC did that)
  • Is Multi-platform (ColdC compiles on Win32, Linux and just about any UNIX, we even got it to run on a Playstation 2)
  • On the fly programming (Allowing us to change the server without restart, SMAUG did not do this for us)


Now, that's all about the base. ColdC/Genesis is all fine, but without a core, it'll be useless to you.

You can do as I'm doing and write one from scratch. Including your own command parsing rutines. Or you can use one of the many premade cores. Some of the faster ones out there are not publicly available yet.

Again, ColdC is an undertaking, it is best if you have some kind of experience in any kind of programming, and understand object inheritance. However it is still possible to learn without those things.
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Posted by Nexes   (65 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #11 on Mon 16 Oct 2006 03:34 AM (UTC)  quote  ]
Message
Time for forum Necromancy! Only 4 years later...

Anyways, does anyone know of any good coldcore (or genesis, the driver for coldcore) resources? I was looking at mud codebases again and I was really beginning to warm up to DGD (because I could finally compile it once I got Linux...) but I want to try out coldC too because it's similar to DGD except that it comes with almost no licensing restrictions.

So yeah, need help! I took a look at cold core and...it seems to be composed of a single file that's 50k lines long. That poses a slight problem of knowing how to add onto the "basic" core...
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Posted by Rakon   USA  (123 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #12 on Fri 20 Oct 2006 01:45 AM (UTC)  quote  ]
Message
Nexes:

Hey, Im starting to write a darn MUD codebase just for the hell of it. So far it has four rooms, and like 5 commands plus a login screen. Its going to be written in python, with the hope of one day being good enough to have maybe more then 5 players ;)

While lacking alot right now its a hobby, but some of the things I'd like for it to include is:
As listed above:

Quote:

Stability in the Core

Takes care of multitasking and Networking...

On the fly programming
(Allowing us to change the server without restart, SMAUG did not do this for us)


Sooo if anyone wants to help, or just mess around with some python programming, send me an Email or something!

Yes, I am a criminal.
My crime is that of curiosity.
My crime is that of judging people by what they say and think, not what they look like.
My crime is that of outsmarting you, something that you will never forgive me for.
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