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 Entire forum ➜ MUSHclient ➜ Suggestions ➜ Feature Wishlist
Feature Wishlist

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Posted by Linda   Sweden  (164 posts)  Bio
Date Reply #15 on Wed 29 Oct 2003 03:26 PM (UTC)
Message
I am aware of this. However, how many people can script? Making enhancements only to the scripting engine, and telling people to script their own add-ons rather than adding them to the program itself, turns the program into something that is only for the specialists, at least if you want new features.

Sure, a lot of people are really generous and share their scripts, but the majority (if not more or less everyone) of those who script seem to be MUD players who, naturally, do stuff that is useful for playing MUDs. This rather leaves MUSH players in the dust, since the things they'd like to see never gets added. And while the client may have been renamed MUclient, it did start out as MUSHclient, and a large number of MUSHers rely on it.

I think the scripting is a good idea, and one that allows great flexibility, but I don't think it should replace development on the client itself, and I must admit that I feel like it has. I think that if features are suggested that sound like good ideas which can be done without excessive bloat and which can't be done perfectly through scripting (and this is the case for the spawned windows and the mail interface; scripting can only do a clunky work-around solution), they ought to be added into the program itself.
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (23,173 posts)  Bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #16 on Wed 29 Oct 2003 08:15 PM (UTC)
Message
I see where you are coming from Linda, but I am still a bit conscious of not wanting to gradually bloat the client with extra features every few months, although I know other clients do just that.

The last major "extra feature" was the chat system, and that was largely because it was almost impossible to script that because of the tight integration needed with the bulk of the client for accepting incoming TCP/IP calls, messages and so on.

However as I demonstrated recently with the "fancy health bar" external VB program, you can do virtually anything if you write a script or separate program.

Now I know this doesn't help if you are not a scripter, and of course you should be able to use the client if you are not. The possibility exists, though, to find someone who will write a plugin/separate program to do what you want (eg. the mailer), and this can be done tomorrow without waiting for a new MUSHclient version.

I'll bear your comments in mind - in fact I'm not sure they made it to the official suggestion database, so I'll put them there now ...
- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (23,173 posts)  Bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #17 on Wed 29 Oct 2003 08:20 PM (UTC)
Message
Spawned windows - suggestion 495.
Mail editor - suggestion 496.
Minimize to tray option - suggestion 497.
Thesaurus - suggestion 498.
- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by Linda   Sweden  (164 posts)  Bio
Date Reply #18 on Wed 29 Oct 2003 08:42 PM (UTC)
Message
Thanks for putting them in. :)

I do agree that bloat is a bad idea, but what one person considers bloat, another might consider necessary.

The chat system, for example, always seemed like bloat to me, whereas 'properly' spawned windows is the kind of thing I'd love to be able to have without having to resort to redirecting things to the notepad which does not give you what I see as a crucial part of spawned windows, namely a separate input window for each.

The notepad method also ends up sticking them rather 'out of the way' (I always seem to 'lose' my notepad windows), and it subjects them to the size limit of the notepad, but the most crucial problem is definitely the lack of a separate input window.
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (23,173 posts)  Bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #19 on Wed 29 Oct 2003 09:02 PM (UTC)
Message
I looked up the Thesaurus engine from the same place I got the spell checker:

http://www.wintertree-software.com/dev/thesdb/windows/index.html

That would cost me $US 499 to buy it, and redistribute it.

I suppose the question is, is it cost-effective? It would be great to have a thesaurus, but MUSHclient is currently selling without one, and to my mind, if you need to look up a synonym most people would have a program like Word where they could quickly swap across to look something like that up.

The spell checker I can see the point of, because "spell check before you send" is a useful thing, and it would be tedious to copy and paste every command from MUSHclient into Word every time you sent it, but would you really need the thesaurus that often?

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by Linda   Sweden  (164 posts)  Bio
Date Reply #20 on Wed 29 Oct 2003 09:30 PM (UTC)
Message
Personally, yes, I'd use the thesaurus regularely. Especially when working on descs and other write-ups in the notepad window, but also during actual roleplay. As it is, I tend to partially work around it writing descs and similar things in Word, but since it eats memory I usually don't keep it open during roleplay, so I can't use it for synonym-checking when writing poses.

Of course, I can't say whether it'd make the program sell better. It would have been neat if it was possible for those who were interested to purhase it as an add-on for themselves.


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Posted by Flannel   USA  (1,230 posts)  Bio
Date Reply #21 on Wed 29 Oct 2003 10:10 PM (UTC)

Amended on Wed 29 Oct 2003 10:12 PM (UTC) by Flannel

Message
Could always use webpages, Dictionary.com (or thesaurus.com I guess).

Uses less resources than word, Im sure you can find stand alone thesaurii out there, and you could with a little work integrate it to the command like through scripting (COM calls)

Personally I dont see a need to have real time Thesaurus lookup, Spellcheck could be used in a real time thing, but a thesaurus just doesnt fit in my mind. Sure, for building or whatever, but thats time independant.
~Flannel

Messiah of Rose
Eternity's Trials.

Clones are people two.
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Posted by Linda   Sweden  (164 posts)  Bio
Date Reply #22 on Wed 29 Oct 2003 11:25 PM (UTC)
Message
Sure, you can use a webpage, but I do prefer programs that I write a lot in (which includes MUSHclient during RP sessions) to have both a spell-checker or a thesaurus included. Otherwise I wouldn't have brought it up. :)

And, no, I doubt I could include a thesaurus myself through scripting. I really don't understand it at all.

I quite understand if some people don't see the use for a real-time thesaurus, but some other people do see it as useful. Certainly, I know a lot of MUSHers who would use it.

But, as I said, I don't know if it would end up being cost-effective or not.
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Posted by David Haley   USA  (3,881 posts)  Bio
Date Reply #23 on Wed 29 Oct 2003 11:34 PM (UTC)
Message
Given a COM-object thesaurus, I or probably a bunch of other people here could make a script that outputs a list of synonyms to the world via echo or something.

I just don't have time to go looking for one or anything, but if you gave me one I could probably futz around with it and get it to work...

The problem with having it built into MUSHclient is that Nick would have to pay $500 for it, and he'd probably have to either rise the price for MUSHclient, lose money, or have two separate pricings (one with and one without thesaurus), none of which look like attractive options from anybody's perspective (i.e. we pay more, he pays more, or he does a lot of work and ends up with two separate versions of MUSHclient to register/maintain/everything.)
David Haley aka Ksilyan
Head Programmer,
Legends of the Darkstone

http://david.the-haleys.org
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Posted by Shadowfyr   USA  (1,792 posts)  Bio
Date Reply #24 on Wed 29 Oct 2003 11:52 PM (UTC)
Message
Well.. One option, though admittedly not too integrated would be to do:

dim IE
set IE = createobject("InternetExplorer.Application")

sub Lookup(name, output, wilds)
  'In case some fool closed our window.
  if typename(IE) <> "IWebBrowser2" then
    set IE = createobject("InternetExplorer.Application")
  end if
  IE.Visible = -1
  IE.Navigate "http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?q=" & wilds(1)
end sub

Of course, this isn't quite as good as direct integration and it would imho be a lot nicer with a lot less bloated and simpler browser that could just display the page, but it works as a solution for the time being.
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Posted by Flannel   USA  (1,230 posts)  Bio
Date Reply #25 on Wed 29 Oct 2003 11:54 PM (UTC)
Message
Yeah, point being, everyone doesnt have to learn to script, We've got a plugins page, with plugins that you can drop into mushclient with minimal tweaking for your own situations.

So, people dont nessisarily need to know how, just have to know what they want, the community is pretty efficient at creating things of the sort.

Technically it could be done via thesaurus.com, but thatd add the lag time needed while the webpage loaded.


Just with an initial search, Rogets thesaurus has a freeware version on TuCows, its 2.1 Mb so thats a bit bulky.

There are also some others, point being, theres a bunch of freeware thesaurii out there, someone just needs to figure out which one would be the easiest to code a COM interface for.
~Flannel

Messiah of Rose
Eternity's Trials.

Clones are people two.
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Posted by Linda   Sweden  (164 posts)  Bio
Date Reply #26 on Thu 30 Oct 2003 11:22 AM (UTC)
Message
I think for a thesaurus to actually be useful, however, you need to be able to use it by right-clicking on the word you want synonyms for, selecting the thesaurus option of the menu (just like you select spell-check) and then being presented with a list of synonyms where you can click on the word you want to have it replace the original word. And that seems terribly complex to manage through scripting.
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Posted by David Haley   USA  (3,881 posts)  Bio
Date Reply #27 on Thu 30 Oct 2003 05:48 PM (UTC)
Message
One thing you could do is use an external VB application that talks to the thesaurus. MUSHclient would need to have added functionality to do things like:
- retrieve currently selected text (from input line or from output window)
- modify currently selected text (from input line only)

The basic idea being that you would select the text, launch the VB application using a keyboard shortcut, it would get the text from MUSHclient using the selected-text-getter, it would then give you a nice fancy list-box where you can double-click, further look up words, etc., and finally when you double-click it tells MUSHclient to replace current word with the word you just selected.

How's that for a good alternative? It only needs two things added to MUSHclient's scripting engine, and then it becomes that much easier to have a nice interface and all that.

When I have time I'll do some browsing around for a thesaurus COM object. Not sure when that'll be, because I don't have a lot of spare time these days.
David Haley aka Ksilyan
Head Programmer,
Legends of the Darkstone

http://david.the-haleys.org
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Posted by Flannel   USA  (1,230 posts)  Bio
Date Reply #28 on Thu 30 Oct 2003 05:50 PM (UTC)

Amended on Thu 30 Oct 2003 05:51 PM (UTC) by Flannel

Message
Could double click the word, (to highlight it) then ctrl-c (to copy) then ctrl-click (to bring up the menu) and then select thesaurus (this ctrl-click could also be macrod to a key combination) then you get a list of words (perhaps a brevity could be set so you dont get spammed with 100 entries) then if we made them hyperlinks, could click that word then it would pushcommand, search that from the history, find/replace the word, and send the text back to the command window.
~Flannel

Messiah of Rose
Eternity's Trials.

Clones are people two.
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Posted by David Haley   USA  (3,881 posts)  Bio
Date Reply #29 on Thu 30 Oct 2003 06:27 PM (UTC)
Message
Personally, I would hate that, since it would keep spamming the output list. Furthermore, you'd have to be able to click on the output window while more text is coming in... or have to keep pausing the output.

The VB window could even be in float-always-on-top mode, you could stick it in a corner of your application and it would do that stuff on its own. Another fairly cool feature of the VB app would be to be able to do lookups on the synonyms you found.
David Haley aka Ksilyan
Head Programmer,
Legends of the Darkstone

http://david.the-haleys.org
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