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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (18,770 posts)  [Biography] bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #15 on Wed 04 Jan 2012 05:13 AM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
Twisol said:

From a design perspective, it's better to make things modular. Certainly the interfaces we have now aren't the greatest, but MUSHclient is over 15 years old at this point. It's pretty hard to tell what you're going to need 15 years down the road.

From a practical perspective, the codebase is now old and crufty, and it's a testament to Nick's skill that the client is one of the best I've used.


Thank you, Twisol. It is indeed hard to predict when you are starting to develop a client (primarily for your own use initially) what might be required in 15 years, and indeed to know about the existence of languages, such as Lua, which hadn't been written at the time.

My primary goal these days is, as far as possible, to preserve backwards compatibility in preference to adding some "cool new feature". I've been through too many computer or operating system upgrades, where things I have spent good money on, or a lot of time on, now just don't work.

The day will probably come (IPV6?) when the client staggers to its grave. And with the benefit of hindsight, someone will write a much better one. And that is as it should be, we should all learn from the experiences of others.
- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by Fiendish   USA  (848 posts)  [Biography] bio   Global Moderator
Date Reply #16 on Wed 04 Jan 2012 05:47 AM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
I hope IPv6 adoption isn't the thing that does it, because that's...like...already happening.
http://aardwolfclientpackage.googlecode.com/
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Posted by Kevnuke   USA  (83 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #17 on Wed 04 Jan 2012 08:07 PM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
I don't really see MUDs doing that for a while. And in any event IRE and the other hosts would likely give the MUD developers ample warning before such a drastic change.

And on the scripting side of things. I think my problem is that I don't fully understand Lua syntax..the more complex interactions, I mean.

I guess I could print the results of a chunk if I can't visualize what it's result would be, such as when using string.gsub for example. Although the relevant sections of the Lua 5.1 reference manual helps some, I don't feel confident using it myself.
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Posted by Twisol   USA  (2,229 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #18 on Wed 04 Jan 2012 08:52 PM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
Can you give an example snippet of some code you have questions about? (A new topic might be best though.)
'Soludra' on Achaea

Blog: http://jonathan.com/
GitHub: http://github.com/Twisol
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Posted by Kevnuke   USA  (83 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #19 on Wed 04 Jan 2012 09:20 PM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
I'm posting from my phone lol I'll start a new thread from my laptop when I have the code in front of me.
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (18,770 posts)  [Biography] bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #20 on Thu 05 Jan 2012 06:27 AM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
Fiendish said:

I hope IPv6 adoption isn't the thing that does it, because that's...like...already happening.


I looked into IPV6 a while back. It seems I have to spend $1000 to get a version of the compiler that supports it. You might imagine that I don't have a strong incentive to do that, for software that is freeware.

However I think that IPV4 support will be around for a while. Considering that modern routers use NAT to expand IP address ranges, I imagine you will find that routers in future will take IPV6 addresses "in the wild" and convert them into IPV4 addresses for home use.
- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by Kevnuke   USA  (83 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #21 on Thu 05 Jan 2012 09:02 AM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
So Nick, if we were to donate enough money, slowly but surely, to buy that shiny new compiler would we see a MUSHclient version 2? And just for the record where do you get such a compiler? :)
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Posted by Twisol   USA  (2,229 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #22 on Thu 05 Jan 2012 09:13 AM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
Kevnuke said:
So Nick, if we were to donate enough money, slowly but surely, to buy that shiny new compiler would we see a MUSHclient version 2?

(2007) http://www.gammon.com.au/forum/bbshowpost.php?bbsubject_id=8132

Kevnuke said:
And just for the record where do you get such a compiler? :)

http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/en-us
'Soludra' on Achaea

Blog: http://jonathan.com/
GitHub: http://github.com/Twisol
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Posted by Kevnuke   USA  (83 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #23 on Thu 05 Jan 2012 09:16 AM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
Which version of visual studio is that?
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Posted by Twisol   USA  (2,229 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #24 on Thu 05 Jan 2012 10:09 AM (UTC)  [ quote  ]

Amended on Thu 05 Jan 2012 07:49 PM (UTC) by Twisol

Message
Visual Studio 2010, the most recent.

Don't assume it's a piece of cake to migrate MUSHclient, though. I have VS2008, and there were a number of issues that VC6 allows but VS2008 complains about. In the long run, it might be better to start fresh than to migrate a storied codebase that's heavily dependent on its current environment.

([EDIT]: Extremely belated, and probably unnecessary, fix: I use VS2005, not VS2008.)
'Soludra' on Achaea

Blog: http://jonathan.com/
GitHub: http://github.com/Twisol
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Posted by Kevnuke   USA  (83 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #25 on Thu 05 Jan 2012 10:20 AM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
Okay so only the 2010 version of visual studio can compile IPv6?

Also which would you need for your purposes, Nick, professional, premium, ultimate?
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (18,770 posts)  [Biography] bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #26 on Fri 06 Jan 2012 05:29 AM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
I would only need the minimal version that supports MFC.

However I wouldn't get too excited right now. I haven't had any reports about people not being able to use IPV6 on MUSHclient. As I said, in all likelihood routers will have fallback positions in them to interface IPV4 programs for quite a while yet.
- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by Kevnuke   USA  (83 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #27 on Fri 06 Jan 2012 06:35 AM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
Still a new client like the one you described in 2007 would be welcomed. I have access to visual studio, don't remember which version though and I've been wanting to learn C++. I'll help anyway I can.. Twisol?
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Posted by Twisol   USA  (2,229 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #28 on Fri 06 Jan 2012 10:07 AM (UTC)  [ quote  ]
Message
I'm curious; what in particular would you want to see in a new client, that MUSHclient doesn't already have? I'm working on my own browser-based client (albeit extremely slowly due to other commitments), so I'm interested in hearing what people want out of their MUDding experience.
'Soludra' on Achaea

Blog: http://jonathan.com/
GitHub: http://github.com/Twisol
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Posted by KaVir   Germany  (114 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #29 on Sat 07 Jan 2012 10:13 AM (UTC)  [ quote  ]

Amended on Sat 07 Jan 2012 10:15 AM (UTC) by KaVir

Message
Twisol said:
I'm curious; what in particular would you want to see in a new client, that MUSHclient doesn't already have?

Although you didn't ask me, I'd still like to answer:

1. Customisable input boxes - so for example, you could create a login screen where people click on the 'name' box and enter their name, then the 'password' box and enter their password (with a private mode whereby characters are displayed as stars or dots). Or an OLC where you fill in various fields by clicking on the appropriate input box.

2. A fixed-width Unicode font offered as the default, which can be checked through CHARSET without also needing to activate the UTF-8 checkbox.

3. Additional MXP features, such as <FONT> and <IMAGE>.

4. Some sort of script auto-installer, to make the entry barrier for newbies as low as possible.

5. Support for drawing animated GIF files, not just PNG and BMP.

6. A simplified interface that isn't as scary for newbies, with a toggle to switch to the more configurable "advanced" mode. It makes me sad when players refuse to use MUSHclient because they think it's too complex.

7. Support for character mode.
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