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➜ MUSHclient
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➜ Help with using jaws
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| Posted by
| H2359
(27 posts) Bio
|
| Date
| Tue 14 Apr 2020 12:27 PM (UTC) |
| Message
| Hi everyone so since we’ve all been confined to our houses I’m wanting to start trying to get back into playing muds
The problem I guess is I am completely blind so I use mush with jaws on my computer
Now I used to play muds along time ago and I think i used mush but I can’t exactly remember
But anyways now to my problem so I have mush installed on my computer and I have the mush reader plug-in installed and everything works great there
But I thought there was a way either through mush or the plug-ins where you could make it to where you could just press control tab to move back-and-forth between the input and output windows and then use your up-and-down arrow to scroll through each window to see certain parts of what you inputted and output it
I read somewhere that there’s a plug-in out there called output functions which I think is what I need but when I try to search it out on Google I can’t seem to find it and it doesn’t seem to be in the main plug-ins list on this site
Is there anybody out there that might be more knowledgeable about the stuff that could maybe give me some assistance any help would be greatly appreciated thanks | | Top |
|
| Posted by
| Nick Gammon
Australia (23,046 posts) Bio
Forum Administrator |
| Date
| Reply #1 on Wed 15 Apr 2020 07:07 AM (UTC) |
| Message
| Tab moves the focus to the command window if it isn't there already.
Ctrl+Up-arrow and Ctrl+Down-arrow scroll the output window (whether or not the focus is there). However that would not be particularly useful if you can't see it.
Ctrl+H shows the command history, which you can move up or down through with the arrow keys. I'm not quite sure how useful that would be as it probably won't be spoken out.
You could do Ctrl+H to recall the commands, and then up-arrow a few times and then Alt+R to recall it.
More simply, though, just use Up-arrow and Down-arrow in the command window and it cycles through recently-entered commands. I don't know if it speaks them, but that shouldn't be hard to make it do. |
- Nick Gammon
www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com | | Top |
|
| Posted by
| H2359
(27 posts) Bio
|
| Date
| Reply #2 on Wed 15 Apr 2020 11:34 AM (UTC) |
| Message
| I got it figured out from another source that didn’t get back to me until after I had already posted this LOL you do you have to have a plug-in for it it’s called output functions but since someone else gave it to me in a dropbox link I’m not sure that I should post it to this forum so you may have to go find it yourself but I think it should be added to the main plug-ins list so that it’s easier for somebody like me to find it in the future if someone else like me is having this issue
And just for future reference the output is not read out with these commands nothing is the only reason that I’m getting things read out through the mud is because of the mush reader plug in | | Top |
|
| Posted by
| Fiendish
USA (2,533 posts) Bio
Global Moderator |
| Date
| Reply #3 on Wed 15 Apr 2020 02:30 PM (UTC) Amended on Wed 15 Apr 2020 02:34 PM (UTC) by Fiendish
|
| Message
|
Quote:
I’m not sure that I should post it to this forum so you may have to go find it yourself but I think it should be added to the main plug-ins list
Uh. That's going to be hard if we don't know what you're talking about. |
https://github.com/fiendish/aardwolfclientpackage | | Top |
|
| Posted by
| H2359
(27 posts) Bio
|
| Date
| Reply #4 on Wed 15 Apr 2020 05:14 PM (UTC) |
| Message
| | Yeah I don’t really know much about it except for that it’s a plug-in that you can install into mush to control tab between the input and output windows and then aero up and down through them | | Top |
|
| Posted by
| Fiendish
USA (2,533 posts) Bio
Global Moderator |
| Date
| Reply #5 on Thu 16 Apr 2020 05:05 AM (UTC) Amended on Thu 16 Apr 2020 05:22 AM (UTC) by Fiendish
|
| Message
|
Quote:
control tab between the input and output windows
You're probably not describing what you think you are. It sounds like your plugin is dumping all of your output to a notepad window. Control+Tab switches between the normal display and the notepad display.
Nick, output text isn't navigable by screen reader users because there's no cursor so nothing gets read when scrolling. The notepad has a cursor though, so they can navigate and hear the text in it wherever the cursor is. The trick is not overfilling the notepad. There's an AppendToNotepad function, but could there also be a corresponding popOldestFromNotepad function? That way you could turn the notepad into a fixed size buffer (pop #lines+#newlines-maxlines to maintain a reasonable maximum size) without having to resort to ReplaceNotepad which seems very heavy if the notepad is holding many thousands of lines. I agree that a send_output_to_notepad plugin using that feature would be quite handy as a standard part of the install for blind players. |
https://github.com/fiendish/aardwolfclientpackage | | Top |
|
| Posted by
| Nick Gammon
Australia (23,046 posts) Bio
Forum Administrator |
| Date
| Reply #6 on Thu 16 Apr 2020 10:48 AM (UTC) Amended on Thu 16 Apr 2020 10:49 AM (UTC) by Nick Gammon
|
| Message
| If that is what is wanted, surely making some key that just works its way back through the output buffer and speaks it would achieve what they want?
What resets it, though? If you start going back through the output buffer, what tells this system to go back to the most recent line? |
- Nick Gammon
www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com | | Top |
|
| Posted by
| H2359
(27 posts) Bio
|
| Date
| Reply #7 on Thu 16 Apr 2020 11:33 AM (UTC) |
| Message
| That all sounds very confusing but fiendish I think you’re right what it does is yes it puts it into a notepad window basically that I can control tab between that window in the input window where I can type in my command to the game and in that notepad window it makes it basically like how it would look in notepad itself where I can air up and down between the commands the game recently spit out after I typed in my command
So for example in the input window I could type in examine box and then the mud would say this is a very large rectangular box with a lock on the front And that description would appear in the output window so then I can arrow up and down through it
The reason why this is crucial for me to be able to have in this program is because without this I wouldn’t be able to necessarily go through each saying that the mud put out to be able to tell the spelling of certain words so I can figure out what my next command will be to type in to the mud
So for example the output of it’s a large box with the lock on the front if I were to hit control tab after typing in my input to go to the output window I could arrow up to that line of text in here at spoken and then either left or right arrow to go by character or control left or control right arrow to go by word
And yes Nick without the mush reader plug-in and this plug-in in my opinion mush is essentially unusable by a screen reader so in my opinion these plug-ins are vital to making sure that mush is usable for a blind person | | Top |
|
| Posted by
| Fiendish
USA (2,533 posts) Bio
Global Moderator |
| Date
| Reply #8 on Thu 16 Apr 2020 01:07 PM (UTC) Amended on Thu 16 Apr 2020 01:18 PM (UTC) by Fiendish
|
| Message
|
Quote:
If that is what is wanted, surely making some key that just works its way back through the output buffer and speaks it would achieve what they want?
I think only partly. The notepad also provides them native support for reading word by word or character by character and page-up/down and searching and selecting arbitrary sections of text by keyboard (urls, quotes, etc), which are all quite valuable. |
https://github.com/fiendish/aardwolfclientpackage | | Top |
|
| Posted by
| H2359
(27 posts) Bio
|
| Date
| Reply #9 on Thu 16 Apr 2020 01:28 PM (UTC) |
| Message
| | Yes exactly and as a sided user you guys might be able to take full advantage of these things but as a blind user mush would be almost completely in accessible without these plug-ins | | Top |
|
| Posted by
| H2359
(27 posts) Bio
|
| Date
| Reply #10 on Thu 16 Apr 2020 08:27 PM (UTC) |
| Message
| | Yeah I don’t really know much about it except for that it’s a plug-in that you can install into mush to control tab between the input and output windows and then aero up and down through them | | Top |
|
| Posted by
| H2359
(27 posts) Bio
|
| Date
| Reply #11 on Fri 17 Apr 2020 08:27 PM (UTC) |
| Message
| | Yes exactly and as a sided user you guys might be able to take full advantage of these things but as a blind user mush would be almost completely in accessible without these plug-ins | | Top |
|
| Posted by
| Nick Gammon
Australia (23,046 posts) Bio
Forum Administrator |
| Date
| Reply #12 on Sat 18 Apr 2020 04:57 AM (UTC) |
| Message
| I think I need to to state exactly what you want to happen, not just the general idea.
Doing screen-reading of a notepad or word processing document is fundamentally different to a MUD output, because the contents of the word processing document don't change as you just ponder and stare at the screen. The MUD output does.
So if you say "if I press key X I want it to speak the second-last line of output, and then if I press X key again I want it to speak the third-last line of output" then what happens if more output arrives while it is doing this? Is the third line still the third line from the bottom (which was previously the second line) and thus you hear the same line twice? Or does it remember where you were when you started doing this and keep moving up from that point? If if it is the latter, what resets its "pointer" to be back at the bottom? |
- Nick Gammon
www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com | | Top |
|
| Posted by
| H2359
(27 posts) Bio
|
| Date
| Reply #13 on Sat 18 Apr 2020 03:00 PM (UTC) |
| Message
| OK I’m not really sure how it works exactly I just know that it acts like a notepad window in the sense that I can move up and down through the lines and then when new lines come in I’m not really sure if it interrupts it or not because I haven’t played a mud in a really long time
now what would be nice is if when you’re looking at a line of text if a new line comes in it just stays on that same line that you were reading until you’re done reading it and then you can go down and look at the new text but if the output functions plug-in does that I am not sure because like I said I haven’t played a mud in a really long time and haven’t had time to really dive into it as of late to really experiment more
now what you could do if you really want more information about the plug-in is email the author of the mush reader plug-in for screen readers his email is tspivey@pcdesk.net
That’s what I did when I couldn’t find the output functions plug-in and that’s when they sent it to me but that’s about all I can give you information wise I didn’t invent the plug-in I only use it to play my games so I don’t really know how it works and the ins and outs of how it works and how it was made | | Top |
|
| Posted by
| Kvothe
(8 posts) Bio
|
| Date
| Reply #14 on Sun 19 Apr 2020 02:45 PM (UTC) |
| Message
| Hello, I have the following plugins:
MushReader: Allows screen readers to read the output of the mud.
Chanel_history: It allows to save the messages of the channels to later be able to read them by means of fast keys.
output_functions: Add many facilities to read the output of the mud. On the one hand it allows you to create an output window in which the output of the mud is updated and also offers keyboard shortcuts to read the output line by line.
If necessary I can pass a link here of these plugins. | | Top |
|
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