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 Entire forum ➜ MUSHclient ➜ Plugins ➜ ATCP plugin for Achaea

ATCP plugin for Achaea

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Posted by Twisol   USA  (2,257 posts)  Bio
Date Reply #45 on Sat 13 Mar 2010 06:11 AM (UTC)
Message
Nick Gammon said:

Twisol said:

Nick: If I recall, you said that only the plugin that sent the DO gets called with "SENT_DO", right? I think that should be changed in favor of calling all plugins with SENT_DO.


You are the one that said we couldn't have multiple logins, and so the SENT_DO is only sent to the first plugin. How are other ones going to know if someone else logged in before them?

You are the one who got them to relax the exact limitation that made me say that! XD

Nick Gammon said:
Maybe you are right that it should be changed, but this shows what happens if you fiddle around too much trying to solve a problem caused by one particular server design.

Personally, I think the subneg handling itself is more at fault than any given server implementation. They have every right to do what they want with their protocol, especially if it already conforms well to the telnet subneg specification. It's a bit pointless to discuss alternatives though, when it's too late to do anything about.

'Soludra' on Achaea

Blog: http://jonathan.com/
GitHub: http://github.com/Twisol
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (23,102 posts)  Bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #46 on Sat 13 Mar 2010 06:19 AM (UTC)
Message
Well I agree with you on that one. The telnet protocols are pretty good examples of people not thinking things through. For example, the whole issue of what happens when you get:


 IAC SB x blah blah IAC y 


where "y" is neither IAC nor SE, is undefined.

So that's example #1.

Then you have sub-negotiation loops, which I think I saw myself, where the server says:

IAC WILL 200

You reply:

IAC DO 200

The server then sees "IAC DO 200" and replies "IAC WILL 200". The client then says "IAC DO 200". The server replies "IAC WILL 200" and so on until the network bandwidth is all swallowed up.

It's an example of a protocol that is ill-thought through. The best they could come up with afterwards is, "ah don't get into negotiation loops". Well, der.

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by Twisol   USA  (2,257 posts)  Bio
Date Reply #47 on Sat 13 Mar 2010 06:29 AM (UTC)
Message
Nick Gammon said:
It's an example of a protocol that is ill-thought through. The best they could come up with afterwards is, "ah don't get into negotiation loops". Well, der.


I remember Elanthis (a MudBytes user) saying that the "proper" way is to keep a table of values for all 255 possible subneg types, with three possible values: active, inactive, or unknown. And they all start at unknown. That's what you ended up implementing in MUSHclient, if I remember.

At any rate, comments on the library? The entire PPI layer was removed, as it's no longer needed, and replaced by the Register/Unregister functions.


As a side thought, it would be really great to talk to someone who maintains ATCP itself, just to get an idea of how, exactly, they expect clients to implement the protocol. What they expect the data to be used for. Etc. But most of the time in the history of ATCP, I believe we've been pretty much on our own.

'Soludra' on Achaea

Blog: http://jonathan.com/
GitHub: http://github.com/Twisol
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (23,102 posts)  Bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #48 on Sun 14 Mar 2010 04:13 AM (UTC)
Message
Twisol said:

I just wrote up a small ATCP library. It seems to work quite well, and in a similar fashion to my original ATCP plugin.


I haven't forgotten about this, but have had mapper improvements coming out of my ears today. Remind me in a few days if there is no further comment.

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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